Ep193: Waking, Dreaming, Being - Dr Evan Thompson
Dr Evan Thompson is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of British Columbia, an Associate Member of the Department of Asian Studies and the Department of Psychology, and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada.
Available on Youtube, iTunes, SoundCloud & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
Dr Thompson discusses his 2014 book ‘Waking, Dreaming, Being’ and takes a deep dive into the self from the point of view of the world’s contemplative traditions as well as neuroscience and philosophy of mind.
Dr Thompson shares his life-long fasciation with the way in which consciousness and the sense of self change across different phases of the wake-sleep cycle, and challenges claims that insight into the self is a means to eliminate suffering and attain enlightenment.
Dr Thompson reveals his own deep practice of meditation, lucid dreaming, Tai Chi and Chinese energy arts, and explains how he, as both a trained skeptical philosopher and as a dedicated practitioner, approaches the religious framing of practice and related concepts such as ‘chi’ and ‘enlightenment’.
Dr Thompson also answers Youtube comments about our previous interview, including a clarification of his critique of Buddhist exceptionalism and a response to Buddhists who feel his work threatens their religious affiliation.
Topics include:
00:00 - Intro
01:30 - Answering Youtube comments
02:14 - ‘Why I Am Not A Buddhist’ and Bertrand Russel
04:59 - What would Bertrand Russel target today?
06:18 - The non-aligned mystic
08:15 - Does Evan meditate?
10:13 - Evan’s extensive daily qigong and tai chi practice
11:55 - Retreat practice and states of high concentration
13:00 - Why does Evan practice so diligently?
13:15 - How does Evan think about ‘chi’?
17:35 - Traps in understanding of chi
18:24 - Why does Evan still meditate if he is not a Buddhist?
20:11 - Evan’s critiques of the doctrinal framing of practices
22:25 - Response to Buddhists who are threatened by Evan’s work
25:43 - Waking, Dreaming, Being
27:28 - Fascination with how consciousness alters across the sleep-wake cycle
28:11 - Evan reflects on ‘Waking, Dreaming, Being’
29:58 - How Evan’s views on practice have evolved
31:12 - The sense of self and the experience of consciousness
32:20 - Awareness, contents of awareness, and sense of self
34:21 - Self construction in imagination, memory, and lucid dreaming
37:03 - 1st person vs 3rd person memory
38:23 - View/field dreams vs outside dreams
39:11 - The self experience in lucid dreaming and OBE’s
41:12 - Evan’s lucid dreaming practice
42:38 - Meeting the Dalai Lama and beginning to lucid dream
44:50 - The curriculum of lucid dreaming in Tibetan Buddhism
46:09 - Meditating in the dream state and Alan Wallace’s advice
48:37 - Walking through walls and transforming the dream
49:39 - Evan’s powerful tai chi dreams
50:06 - Variation in lucid dreaming talent
51:07 - What constitutes the sense of self?
52:51 - How does the self complex arise?
54:56 - Metacognition
55:33 - Mindfulness rides on social cognitive capacities
56:40 - Self understanding and claims of liberation
59:10 - The value of the Buddhist view of self
01:01:54 - The claim that insight into self reduces suffering is naive
01:04:12 - How to make the world a better place
01:04:49 - Social is crucial
01:05:57 - Hermit is a social category
01:06:31 - Recognising the value of meditation in a social context
01:09:27 - Vasubandu vs Candrakirti and Metzinger vs Thompson
01:12:32 - Evan’s upcoming projects
01:14:22 - Dying, our ultimate transformation
Previous episode with Evan Thompson:
To find out more about Evan Thompson, visit:
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James