Ep313 - Modern Spirit Worker - Mary Shutan 3
Mary Shutan is an author, occultist, and spiritual teacher.
Available on Youtube, iTunes, SoundCloud & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
Mary explains her activities as a modern spirit worker, reveals how to form and maintain working relationships with spirits, details the difference between spirit pacts and contracts, and warns about the unintended consequences of making deals with unknown beings.
Mary explores the problems associated with using the word “shaman”, offers a critique of modern shamanism training courses, and explains why many people who pursue shamanism would be better suited to a religious orientation to animism.
Mary also reveals her own aborted attempt at the infamous Abramelin ritual, details the resultant fallout and years of recovery, and reflects on the impact of magickal practice on mental and physical health.
01:00 - What is a modern spiritual worker?
02:20 - Why Mary doesn’t like to use the word “shaman”
02:44 - Mary’s problems with Core Shamanism
04:31 - Shamanism and patriarchy
05:34 - Why Mary doesn’t call herself a shaman
07:54 - Core Shamanism, Christian conditioning, and legacies of colonisation
10:58 - Anthropologists as shamanic teachers
13:21 - Training in Core Shamanism
15:41 - Critique of Core Shamanism and wounded healers
18:43 - Post-colonial critiques of modern shamanism
20:00 - Some people really want animism
21:42 - When shamanism goes wrong
22:33 - Cherry-picking shamanism and reconstruction
23:47 - Discernment and tainted gnosis
24:22 - Words have energy and the need for respect
26:36 - Mary uses the word “shaman” in her business and books
27:33 - Pervasive Christian conditioning
28:30 - Patriarchy in shamanism
29:38 - Pop-shamanism vs direct experience
30:55 - 20 years of teaching shamanism
32:16 - People don’t believe in spirits any more
34:04 - Modernity and scientism
37:06 - Modernity and shamanism
40:40 - Martin Prechtel engaging with indigenous shamanism
43:06 - Indigeneity and the routes to become a shaman
46:52 - What Mary tells people who feel called to shamanism?
49:05 - Conflating personal religious practice with professionalising
49:53 - How to get started in animism
52:55 - Which spirits and entities does Mary work with?
55:27 - Spirit relations
57:42 - Mary’s way of relating to spirits
59:33 - Spirit communication in dreams and through rituals
01:00:27 - Spirits who come to Mary
01:01:23 - Spirit contracts
01:03:56 - Spirit ID and the danger of spirit contracts
01:04:53 - The Buddha in Sri Lanka
01:06:35 - Be careful what you wish for
01:07:31 - Spirit Lawyering
01:07:52 - Healthy skepticism when dealing with spirits
01:10:00 - Cultural misunderstandings about spirits
01:11:21 - Don’t make a pact with a spirit
01:12:29 - Warning about spirit contracts
01:13:18 - Pact vs contract
01:16:41 - Mary’s training in Western Occultism and time in the Void
01:20:14 - Mary’s spiritual crisis
01:24:17 - Orienting to the Dark Feminine
01:27:09 - Two attempts at the Abramelin ritual
01:29:16 - Abandoning the 18-month Abramelin ritual
01:29:50 - How did Mary exit the ritual?
01:30:48 - Magick and mental health
01:32:36 - Psychotherapists for magicians
01:33:32 - Struggles with the Golden Dawn and pivoting to shamanism
01:38:24 - Christian monks did magick
01:38:55 - Giving up seeking
Previous episode with Mary Shutan:
To find out more about Mary Shutan, visit:
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James