Ep315: Religious Psychosis & Dark Retreat - Dr Caroline van Damme & Lama Justin von Bujdoss

I host a dialogue between Dr Caroline van Damme and Lama Justin von Bujdoss about religious psychosis and intense spiritual practice.

Available on Youtube, iTunes, SoundCloud & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.

Dr Caroline Van Damme is an adult psychiatrist and family and systemic psychotherapist specialising in chronic psychotic disorders, and co-teacher of Buddhist guru and Sowa Rigpa doctor Nida Chenagtsang. 

Lama Justin von Bujdoss is an American Buddhist teacher, dark retreat yogi, founder and spiritual director of Yangti Yoga Retreat Center in Buckland Massachusetts, and author of ‘Modern Tantric Buddhism’.

Caroline and Justin discuss the risk of psychosis during extreme religious practices, consider the rewards and dangers of dark retreat, and describe the different forms of hallucination.

Caroline and Justin warn about engaging in advanced practices too soon, consider the pros and cons of spiritual ambition, and offer a mental health checklist for those considering intensive practice.

Caroline and Justin also reflect on their own biographies, share challenges they have faced, and recount anecdotes of religious psychosis.


00:00 - Intro 

01:08 - Justin explains the practice of dark retreat 

5:55 - What is the purpose of dark retreat?

06:50 - Obstacles during dark retreat 

09:39 - Distracted and disturbed by experience 

11:08 - Sensory deprivation induces psychosis and delusional ideation 

12:41 - Auditory or visual?

13:16 - Hallucinations in dark retreat vs in schizophrenia 

18:51 - Practice prerequisites to dark retreat

21:10 - The purpose of intensive practice contexts 

22:42 - Trekchod is the best antidote

23:38 - Justin laments the rush to do advanced retreats and practices 

24:35 - Lack of mental health crisis intervention skills in Buddhist sanghas

25:38 - The devastating consequences of psychosis 

27:09 - Sensory deprivation as torture and the “White Room”

29:01 - Tantric context of dark retreat and other challenging experiences 

31:34 - Gek sel literature and “set and setting”

34:24 - Disastrous outcomes of Vipassana and other group retreats

38:19 - Mystical delusions and the manic state

41:59 - Consent, context, and the need for a guide

46:17 - Practice slowly, arrive quickly

46:51 - Extreme sports practitioners and disregard for tradition

50:24 - - Social pressure to avoid boredom

54:48 - A menu of spiritual materialism

57:10 - Outer, inner, and secret yidam practice 

59:50 - Tilopa’s Six Nails 

01:00:47 - Śamatha and raw-dogging

01:02:33 - Lojong

01:03:21 - Dream yoga and illusory body practice

01:05:14 - Walking meditation

01:05:28 - Frequency, duration, and intensity

01:08:21 - Spiritual ambition and Justin’s own training

01:13:10 - Ngondro and building a good foundation

01:14:12 - Bodhicitta as context

01:15:44 - A story of temporary insanity

01:17:29 - Health checklist for extreme spiritual adventures

01:20:17 - Dr Caroline’s difficult intake experience

01:22:02 - Spiritual bypass and the role of the teacher

01:24:13 - Long term relationships with patients and students

01:25:40 - John Welwood’s advocacy for psychotherapy 

01:29:40 - Today’s lack of a long term relationship with the guru

01:35:22 - The power of relationship

01:40:00 - Justin’s concluding remarks

01:41:56 - Dr Caroline’s concluding remarks


Previous episodes with Lama Justin von Bujdoss:

Previous episodes with Dr Caroline van Damme:

Find out more about Lama Justin von Bujdoss:

Find out more about Dr Caroline van Damme:

Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James

Next
Next

Ep314: Me & My Gurus - Ani Pema