Ep91: Dark Side of the Dharma - Anna Lutkajtis
In this episode I am joined by Anna Lutkajtis author of ‘Dark Side of the Dharma: Meditation, Madness, and Other Maladies on the Contemplative Path’.
Anna is a postgraduate researcher at the University of Sydney who’s research focuses on mysticism, the dark night of the soul, and the healing potential of altered states of consciousness.
We learn how Anna’s own existential crisis saw her embark on a spiritual quest, including deep exploration of meditation and yoga, and close contact with pragmatic dharma teachers Daniel Ingram and Kenneth Folk.
Anna reveals where a senior teacher placed her on the 4-path model of enlightenment, and why that framework is no longer the focus of her personal practice.
We also discuss Anna’s research into adverse meditation effects, explore three different theories of the dark night of the soul, and consider the friction points between enlightenment and psychological health.
Anna then asks me about my experience sharing meditation with others and we discuss my interests in the parallels between mindfulness and mainstream Christianity, the mechanisms of religious conversion, and the pros and cons of intensive retreat.
Episode also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
Topics Include:
00:00 – Intro
01:10 – Anna’s meditation history
04:38 – Encountering Daniel Ingram and Kenneth Folk
09:53 – Personal outcome of working 1-1 with Kenneth Folk
11:03 – Fire kasina practice and yoga asana
11:40 – Anna’s fire kasina story
15:56 – Anna’s ‘relentless seeking phase’
16:57 – Perspective on the 4-path model
19:22 – Who diagnosed Anna’s path attainments and on what basis?
20:59 – Anna’s dark night, depression, and Daniel Ingram’s help
24:59 – 3 different dark night theories
29:40 – Scripting and experience construction
33:36 – Why are adverse meditation effects ignored?
36:00 – Religious vs psychological friction points
40:18 – Bikkhu Analayo’s critique
42:57 – Defining ‘adverse effects’
44:53 – Trauma and adverse meditation effects
45:51 – Pros and cons of intensive retreat
48:03 – Frequency of adverse meditation effects
52:29 – The goals of practice
55:21 – Further definitions and variables
1:00:02 – Spiritual but not religious?
1:03:32 – Mindfulness as a religious movement
1:05:17 – Peak experiences and religious conversion
1:07:20 – Dangers of psychedelic-assisted therapy
1:07:50 – Encountering resistance during research and publication |
1:11:51 – Anna’s psychedelic research
1:12:25 – The life-cycle of the mindfulness trend
Buy Anna’s book with discount code DS20 (valid until 4/30/21):
USA https://redwheelweiser.com/detail.html?id=9781913504595
UK https://www.aeonbooks.co.uk/product/the-dark-side-of-dharma-meditation-madness-and-other-maladies-on-the-contemplative-path/94921/
To find our more about Anna Ludkajtis, visit:
https://annalutkajtis.com/
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James